| Tenchiboard: Anime and More http://bbs.noneedfortenchi.com/ |
|
| science VS faith http://bbs.noneedfortenchi.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1680 |
Page 6 of 6 |
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
Now take into account that the word tempt has more then one meaning.<br><br>Everyone knows the sinical meaning, entice to do, provoke someone to do something through promises or persuasion, give rise to a desire, induce into action by using one's charm.<br><br>But not every one knows the test part, or takes that into account.<br><br>In Genesis 22:1 The term tempt is used for testing<br>In James 1:13 the Term Tempt is use to provock a reaction via exploiting disires<br><br>Two diffrent terms for one word, used under diffrent sercomstances in which they fit.<br><br>This diffrence between testing vs. provocking a reaction exploting desire makes all the diffrence.<br><br>You interpiting that the use of the word tempt in Genesis 22:1 is being use as "To exploit disire to gain a reaction", and it is not. It is being used as "To test a reaction, and it's bases".<br><br>In James 1:13, the meaning behind the statement is that god will not exploit your disires for a serton reaction, nor can he be exploited, so don't accuse god of trying to exploit your disires to get a serton reaction.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hsrun --><img src=http://www.unitedanime.com/nnhp/ezboard/HSRunning.gif ALT=":hsrun"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
Concider the look of the book itself, it is a hardback that is quite large in size and looks to have physical wethering due to the variable of age. The syntax is also british english in oragin, and is a translation of the King james version. The likely hood of a time and cultural gap is very high, and there for, every possible defintion of the word tempt has to be accounted for.<br><br>Failure to do so is failure to criticly analysis the subject accurately. <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | rolfwind [ Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>In Genesis 22:1 The term tempt is used for testing<br>In James 1:13 the Term Tempt is use to provock a reaction via exploiting disires<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>How do you know this is the case? How can I go on your interpretation?<br><br>And what about this contradiction?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Has anyone seen God?<br><br> * John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."<br> * Exodus 33:20 "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."<br> * John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God [Jesus], he hath seen the Father."<br> * I John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time."<br><br> vs.<br><br> * Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."<br> * Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."<br> * Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."<br> * Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rolfotto.com">Eyes, only for each other....<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.rolfotto.com/posts/signature.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
It is very simple really, READ THE INTIRE STORY THAT THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE IN!!!<br><br>You and that website only account for that 1, single sentance, when that sentance exist within an entire story, with charactors that have dynamic depth and issues the protain to its use. You have to criticaly analysis the intire story to understand the meaning of the scritpture you address. And your not doing that.<br><br>That is the countinued issue that keeps coming back up, your continual failure to analysis the intire subject or story the statements exist under. You have to read the entire story and understand the dynamics and take into account all variable definitions a word can have and what defintions would exist under what sercomstance, then analysis the story to see what variables apply.<br><br>How many times am I going to have to tell you this, in how many ways before you get the point? <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | rolfwind [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
I have read the stories. And they don't always provide the caveats you seem to think are there. The statements contradict each other.<br><br>Like this:<br><br>What were Jesus' last words?<br><br>Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."<br><br>Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."<br><br>John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." <p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rolfotto.com">Eyes, only for each other....<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.rolfotto.com/posts/signature.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
???<br>Ok where is the contradiction again?<br><br>You know, all 3 of those are one story, just seporated in 3 diffrent sections in 3 diffrent books from 3 diffrent people to address 3 diffrent points of view. Your are still left with a choice to criticaly analysis them or refuse to. You are getting 3 diffrent perspectives from 3 diffrent people, and they all tie together after through non-biased examination. <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | True Sheol [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | You're Obfuscating The Issue. |
JadenStriker2ndGen,<br><br>The more aspects of reality that you are faced with, the more theories you have to make up in order to prop up existing ones. That isn't pursuit of truth. That is the avoidance of it. That is precisely what religious leaders of the past and present do. As more of what they said in the past is revealed as false, the more contrivances that they must create to support teetering beliefs. Are you claiming to have direct "inspiration" from your god? If your belief structure was actually sound, no additional 'theories' would be necessary. The fact that you are having to make up reasons why your existing beliefs should not change, reveals the nature of your particular religion as prison for minds.<br><br>Additionally, by claiming that your god is exercising tight control over the environment of creation, you are in fact attributing much of the world's misery to him. Hereditary diseases, birth defects, chemical imbalances, the very nature of man. The mind is a reflection of the physical body. Man is not simply imperfect because his mind is imperfect. Much of man is imperfect because his body is. Is your god performing random genetic engineering, intermittently inflicting misery on those whose only sin was being born? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub19.ezboard.com/btenchimuyo79943.showUserPublicProfile?gid=truesheol>True Sheol</A> at: 11/17/03 11:36 pm<br></i> |
|
| Author: | rolfwind [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Answers of Any Kind.... |
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> ???<br>Ok where is the contradiction again?<br><br>You know, all 3 of those are one story, just seporated in 3 diffrent sections in 3 diffrent books from 3 diffrent people to address 3 diffrent points of view. Your are still left with a choice to criticaly analysis them or refuse to. You are getting 3 diffrent perspectives from 3 diffrent people, and they all tie together after through non-biased examination.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That is not how the scriptures were written to my understanding. You should check up on the history of the bible to see how the different works were cannonized.<br><br>Where's the contradiction?<br><br>Each story tells different last words of Jesus:<br>1. "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"<br><br>2. "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit."<br><br>3. "It is finished:"<br><br>But perhaps you need to be reminded of what a contradiction is. From dictionary.com:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>con·tra·dict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kntr-dkt)<br>v. con·tra·dict·ed, con·tra·dict·ing, con·tra·dicts<br>v. tr.<br><br> 1. To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).<br> 2. To deny the statement of. See Synonyms at deny.<br> 3. To be contrary to; be inconsistent with.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Your claim on the bible not contradicting itself doesn't hold, other than with feeble ad hoc explanations. <p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rolfotto.com">Eyes, only for each other....<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.rolfotto.com/posts/signature.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: You're Obfuscating The Issue. |
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>The more aspects of reality that you are faced with, the more theories you have to make up in order to prop up existing ones.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I can say the same thing about the evolutionary belifes. there are 3 theroys out there, 2 of them now disregarded as faulty, and a new one being generated and attempts to justify it as well. The first 2 now refuted had gone through the same process this new one is going through. Spanwtanius has been shot down, classical has been shot down, now we have a traditional one trying to make it's way up. When classical was new, people said the similer things your saying about this new one.<br><br>How can you say that I am in a prison of the mind when your doing the same thing, using the same words other athiest who choose to belive evolution had made about the evolutionary theroy before you when it's spawntanius evolution was falsafied and the progressive one came about.<br><br>Where is your irrefutable proff that evolution is real? You mind explaining that to me.<br><br>Before you go off saying that the existance of god is imposible, provide the "IRREFUTABLE PROFF" that evolution is true.<br><br>And how did you interpit that god is exercising strick control?<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>In addtion to taking the programmer example into account, take into accound the story of babylon and the construction of a tower that was suppost to reach to what they may have understood as heaven at the time.<br><br>If the existance of god is true, and the story of babylon accurate, then the dynamic variations of the human genepool could have been forcefully altered by god, and not have evolved over millions of years.<br><br>Also take into account that the air presure of earth decreases the higher up a mountain you travil and the limitation of the human body that requires oxigain. To cliam mount everist you have to have an air tank because there is so much carbondioxied and so little air presure and the air is not recirculating back down to trees enough to creat suffition supply of oxigain, you would end up sufficating and die.<br><br>So if there is a god, and this god cares about what he she or it created, and knows the reasult if the babylon tower is going to have, that god may forcefully rewright all of the lauguge protocal and genetic protocal to preserver the existance of those involved in the construction of the tower, even though it is writen that the god of my religion saw it as an act of defiance.<br><br>And then that now leads back to the subject that the god of my religion is a merciful caring one. <br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>In this instance, God is not excresizing strick control over them, he was saving them from what they didn't know about, while holding them accountable for being defiant. If the babylonian tower countinued to be worked on, how far do you think they would get before people started dying from suffication? Suffication wouldn't be the first thing though. Before they would get high enough to sufficate they would start feeling light headed, and dizzyness. It is not very likely they understood about the diffrence of air presure and the need for oxigain back then.<br><br>And god is not excersizing tight control in the manner you claim, if he was you would be dead right now.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>The fact that you are having to make up reasons why your existing beliefs should not change, reveals the nature of your particular religion as prison for minds.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I am not making them up, I am addressing them as they come to me. I am not proping them up, I am probing them and understand them better, gathering all the information I can and trying to apply them to each instance, testing them against reallife experances to see which instance fits and which do not, throughing out those that don't and stating those that do, or hold the possibility of fitting.<br><br>And being born is not a sin, and never will be. Even if your partens have you illigitamitly, your birth is not and will not be a crime. If any one commeted a sin it would be your partens, not you. Being born is not something you have much control over, so don't you ever make a statement like that again.<br><br>And so what if everyones mind and body is imperfect, don't be so pessimistic, make the most of what you do have. Don't let birth defects, chemical imbalances, and varius other things stop you from self improvent. Where is that analitical understand you use to have? It seems to be decaying into prejudic, but at least your still using it.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."<br><br>Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."<br><br>John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." <br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>1. "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"<br><br>2. "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit."<br><br>3. "It is finished:"<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>You idiot, you just contradiction your own self. Each one of those ended with jesus giving his spirit to god. The rest of those are in linier fasion with each of those seporet evens happening before the true end you failed to address in you second post.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>con·tra·dict ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kntr-dkt)<br>v. con·tra·dict·ed, con·tra·dict·ing, con·tra·dicts<br>v. tr.<br><br>1. To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).<br>2. To deny the statement of. See Synonyms at deny.<br>3. To be contrary to; be inconsistent with.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>And the claim that the bible doesn't contradicting itself does hold, and the specific instances they exist under where there long before I made any explintion. Wether you see them or not is a choice your making. You have to make the choice to analysis what I am saying, and you have, but it seems prejudical. Your not taking into account a lot of things, and are refusing to address a lot of things such as the 3 death instances.<br><br>You contridicted your own self when you refused to addrested the endings by leaving out the part where jesus gave his spirit to god, and only addressing the part before that event. <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | rolfwind [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: You're Obfuscating The Issue. |
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You idiot, you just contradiction your own self. Each one of those ended with jesus giving his spirit to god. The rest of those are in linier fasion with each of those seporet evens happening before the true end you failed to address in you second post.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Everyone dies, but not everyone has three sets of last words!<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And the claim that the bible doesn't contradicting itself does hold, and the specific instances they exist under where there long before I made any explintion.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Explain this contradiction:<br><br>Judas died how?<br><br>"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)<br><br>"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18) <p><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center"><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rolfotto.com">Eyes, only for each other....<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.rolfotto.com/posts/signature.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub19.ezboard.com/btenchimuyo79943.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rolfwind>rolfwind</A> at: 11/18/03 2:09 am<br></i> |
|
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: You're Obfuscatiting The Issue. |
In Matt. 27.5 it is explaining how he died<br><br>In Acts 1:18 is explaining the what happened to his body when he did hang him self. (And Falling headlong)<br><br>You have gravity on earth you know, so you can kill your self on a rope, and if enough force is gained it is possible to ripe the heads off. Acts 1:18 is sugesting that his method of hanging was so violent a suicide that this may have happend. Matt 27:5 suggest why he did it, he felt the shame from what he did and commeted suicide.<br><br>Matt. 27.5 you have to take phycoligy into account<br>Acts 1:18 you have to take physics into account <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: You're Obfuscating The Issue |
Both in volve gravity and the head region of your body<br>Matt. 27.5 Hanged himself / Acts 1:18 falling headlong - you can't hang your sell without something around your neck and enough force to break both your neck and your brain steam.<br><br>Matt. 27.5 suggest that his emtions involving this had become so torn that he was in a state of psycosis. No one will kill them self if they are sane.<br><br>Acts 1:18 like I said before, discribes how violant a suicide it was.<br><br>If Judas sanity had become unstable enough, as it is suggested, he could have run and jumped off a surrface high enough for the rope to snap back at a rate strong enough to decapitate himself, and when his body hits the ground his organs and blood fly out from the forceful impact to the ground.<br><br>I belive gravity, speed and distance come into play, as well as body structure and a map that has a layout of what the land was like in or around 0033 AD.<br><br>Even if that is a theroy, it is still a valid explantion, and if you have the list above as well as the testing tools and finances, you can actully test it; but use a custom mechanical doll or one of those car crash dummys. <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | True Sheol [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Nope |
<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>JadenStriker2ndGen</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> wrote:<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I can say the same thing about the evolutionary belifes.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>The difference is that scientists often reformulate theories to reflect reality, not create an ad-hoc explanation. Each successive theory contains <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>less</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> questionable aspects than its predecessor. If a theory is fundamentally flawed, it is discarded and new one is created. This is not what theologians have done. Thy create yet more beliefs that requires additional leaps of faith. Rather than being a guide towards truth, organized religion is used to blind people to it.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Where is your irrefutable proff that evolution is real? You mind explaining that to me.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>No irrefutable proof as of yet, but that's something that's freely admitted, because I am a reasonable person, as opposed to an unreasonable one. As time passes and science progresses, the theories will become refined and less ambiguous. This is the opposite of religious beliefs which become more convoluted as time passes, as you have demonstrated in the discussion.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I am not making them up, I am addressing them as they come to me. I am not proping them up, I am probing them and understand them better, gathering all the information I can and trying to apply them to each instance, testing them against reallife experances to see which instance fits and which do not, throughing out those that don't and stating those that do, or hold the possibility of fitting.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Rather than refining your beliefs, you are convoluting them in order to 'cover' for beliefs that don't reflect reality. In order to compensate for the lack of genetic depth, you <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>added</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the belief that as time went on, your god added genetic material to mankind's population. This also suggests that mankind was 'work in progress', rather than completed. If Adam and Eve were originally "perfect", then why would mankind be incomplete?<br><br>You are well on your way to creating your own version of Christianity. As mentioned, there are creationist theories that hypothesize that the living organisms of this planet a product of genetic experimentation by aliens. Perhaps you should consider them because you cannot accept the possibility that existence is not guided by an omnipotent and omniscient creator.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>And being born is not a sin, and never will be. Even if your partens have you illigitamitly, your birth is not and will not be a crime. If any one commeted a sin it would be your partens, not you. Being born is not something you have much control over, so don't you ever make a statement like that again.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Actually, you are wrong. The Scriptures clearly state in no uncertain terms that all men have sinned. I find it strange that you don't understand this very basic belief. The status of being a sinner is conditional upon being "imperfect". It actually survives scrutiny because it reflects reality. Imperfection is not a choice for mankind. Every person is born with defects. Mankind <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">is</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> imperfect on the physical level and that is why we are all "sinners".<br><br>Question: Do you believe in hell? Do you believe that when people die, they are judged and if found sufficiently 'bad', have their "souls" sent someplace to suffer eternal torment? <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Author: | Botan RKT [ Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nope |
Because apparently we can't handle open discussion without turning it into an "I'm right, you're wrong" argument, this thread is being closed. Don't bother complaining. I barely show up and the next time I do your complaints will be far away where I will not search for them.<br><br>If you wish to continue this pissing contest, do so via e-mail or AIM.<br><br>Perhaps we should all take a lesson from a certian someone in Christian faith who openly loved and listened to everyone. <br><br>Thank you and have a nice day. <p></p><i></i> |
|
| Page 6 of 6 | All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|