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| Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessness http://bbs.noneedfortenchi.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1728 |
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| Author: | Zhuge Liang [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessness |
Assuming that you were as wealthy and happy as you could ever imagine. If you could make the world significantly better in some way, but at the same time had to give up everything you had in order to do it, would you? <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/R3K.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/ZLstrat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE BR START--><br /><!--EZCODE BR END--><br>Empires wax and wane; states cleave asunder and coalesce. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Swift as the wind, silent as the forest, fierce as the fire, steady as the mountain."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> A banner used by the Takeda clan of Kai (Sengoku Jidai era). </p><i></i> |
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| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
Well, I have the view that selflessness leads to personal happyness, as to be expected from an OMO, I would say yes in a heart beat. Besides, I still got my brains and the only way to take that from me is to kill me, and even then I hold the belife of god, jesus, a heaven, and a hell.<br><br>*scratches head* I hope that doesn't sound arrogant or anything. Oh well what ever. <p></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | mjhennessey [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
Everyone must decide for themselves how to balance their spiritual and material well being. However, completely forsaking one for the other is fundamentally flawed and will preclude your existence as a human person. <p><div align="center"><style>.siggy { border-top : 2px solid #EAEAFF;border-right : 2px solid #000084;border-bottom :2px solid #000000;border-left : 2px solid #A4A4FF;background-image: url('http://www.henheart.com/ezstuff/washu11c.png');}.siggy td {background-color: transparent; color: #00F0FF; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;} .siggy a:link { color: #C1DDF9; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:active { color: #FFFF00; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:visited { color: #8080FF; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:hover { color: #FF0000; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; } </style><center> <table span class="siggy" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="386" height="221"id="AutoNumber2"><tr><td> <div align="center"> <center> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="100%" id="AutoNumber2" height="100%"><tr> <td align="center" width="100%" height="100%" valign="top"> <p align="left"><a href="http://www.henheart.com/yabbse/">Henheart's Universe</a> | <a href="http://pub116.ezboard.com/banimecommunity71285">Anime Community The Fuzzy Pink Board</a><br><a href="http://pub92.ezboard.com/bmidnightlagoonmessageboard">Midnight Lagoon</a> | <a href="http://www.tenchi-online.com/fourms/index.php">Tenchi-Online Fourms</a> | <a href="http://pub189.ezboard.com/btheranddtestlab">The R & D Test Lab</a></td> </table></center> </div> </td></tr></table></center></div></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
Would you mind telling us how it is flawed?<br><br>Some how, I think the problem is not to do with fundamitnals, but dependancy.<br><br>I don't depent on wealth as my bases of existance, but other people do. So maybe it is not a flaw in pholocify, but a flaw in compadible view points and what logic is conciderd as zero refrance.<br><br>Sence diffrent people take up diffrent zero refrance points, a person who has based his life soly on personal gain, a matiralist may not be able to see how lossing everything can cause no significant emotional effect to a person who is not a matirailist, where as a person who bases his life on teamwork and building others up, can not comprehand killing someone or destroying something to acquire an object.<br><br>Granted all of that has mcuh more complexity, and a whole lot to concider before you get into an arguement of rights and wrong, so lets just leave it at that. <p></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | mjhennessey [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
A person that has no spiritual dimension and lives a purely materialistic life persues only material things. If he sees a watch he likes in a jewelry store, he'll buy it. If he sees the same watch on your wrist, he'll slit your throat and take it. To him there is no difference - obtain what you want at any cost.<br><br>A person that has no materialistic dimension has no desire for the physical world. The human body becomes an obstacle to the eternal existance of the spirit. If anyone remembers the "Heaven's Gate" cult, that was a prime example of this.<br><br>So the fundamental flaw is -<br><br>A purely materialistic person is a beast, an animal with no sense of right and wrong.<br><br>A purely spiritualistic person denies his bodily existence and is happy only in death.<br><br>Neither are complete human persons. A balance of these two dimensions must be achieved to have a rewarding and happy life. <p><div align="center"><style>.siggy { border-top : 2px solid #EAEAFF;border-right : 2px solid #000084;border-bottom :2px solid #000000;border-left : 2px solid #A4A4FF;background-image: url('http://www.henheart.com/ezstuff/washu11c.png');}.siggy td {background-color: transparent; color: #00F0FF; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;} .siggy a:link { color: #C1DDF9; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:active { color: #FFFF00; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:visited { color: #8080FF; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:hover { color: #FF0000; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; } </style><center> <table span class="siggy" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="386" height="221"id="AutoNumber2"><tr><td> <div align="center"> <center> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="100%" id="AutoNumber2" height="100%"><tr> <td align="center" width="100%" height="100%" valign="top"> <p align="left"><a href="http://www.henheart.com/yabbse/">Henheart's Universe</a> | <a href="http://pub116.ezboard.com/banimecommunity71285">Anime Community The Fuzzy Pink Board</a><br><a href="http://pub92.ezboard.com/bmidnightlagoonmessageboard">Midnight Lagoon</a> | <a href="http://www.tenchi-online.com/fourms/index.php">Tenchi-Online Fourms</a> | <a href="http://pub189.ezboard.com/btheranddtestlab">The R & D Test Lab</a></td> </table></center> </div> </td></tr></table></center></div></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
Well, then I don't have either error, then if thats your prospective. Though it is true that I could care less wether I loose every thing, but unlike that ignorant cult, and don't see a materialist as some moster. It is quite posible to be a materialist and know right from wrong and not cut someones hand off over a watch, so I could care less if a person was a materialist or not, nor do I denie my bodies existance, and as far as happyness in death goes, that sounds like suicide or some crap, which I defentaly have no intrest in.<br><br>Yes, what you stated is a fundamental flaw, but don't assume that I have that same impaired judgement.<br><br>Though honistly, I'm getting a nagging feeling that statement is a form of trap or attack, and there for find it a bit offincive.<br><br>I belive in moteration and balance as you do, just not between the same 2 negative values.<br><br>Also the value I hold for teamwork, and freedom of information exchange, aka trustablitlity is a positive value, and therefor conflicts with self rejection, happy to be dead negitive value and the negivite matiralist value, oh my god he is going to cut off my arm! RUUUUUUN!!!<br><br>Not sure why you want to hold such a negitive light on this subject, mjhennessey, but that point of view is just weird. <br><br>"A purely materialistic person is a beast, an animal with no sense of right and wrong.<br><br>A purely spiritualistic person denies his bodily existence and is happy only in death."<br><br>Huh, Sounds like psycosis or something.<br>You do hang around saine friends right, because that statement is just scary? I wish I had not asked you for that info.<br><br>.oO( ya know, I think I better duck and cover just incase projectiles start flying)<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>*ducks covers and runs*</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <p></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | mjhennessey [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
The pure materialist and the pure spiritualist are merely the extreme opposite ends of the same scale. I really don't think that such examples of people actually exist, everyone is somewheres in between. However, ZL did ask a hypothetical question. <p><div align="center"><style>.siggy { border-top : 2px solid #EAEAFF;border-right : 2px solid #000084;border-bottom :2px solid #000000;border-left : 2px solid #A4A4FF;background-image: url('http://www.henheart.com/ezstuff/washu11c.png');}.siggy td {background-color: transparent; color: #00F0FF; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;} .siggy a:link { color: #C1DDF9; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:active { color: #FFFF00; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:visited { color: #8080FF; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; }.siggy a:hover { color: #FF0000; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; } </style><center> <table span class="siggy" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="386" height="221"id="AutoNumber2"><tr><td> <div align="center"> <center> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="100%" id="AutoNumber2" height="100%"><tr> <td align="center" width="100%" height="100%" valign="top"> <p align="left"><a href="http://www.henheart.com/yabbse/">Henheart's Universe</a> | <a href="http://pub116.ezboard.com/banimecommunity71285">Anime Community The Fuzzy Pink Board</a><br><a href="http://pub92.ezboard.com/bmidnightlagoonmessageboard">Midnight Lagoon</a> | <a href="http://www.tenchi-online.com/fourms/index.php">Tenchi-Online Fourms</a> | <a href="http://pub189.ezboard.com/btheranddtestlab">The R & D Test Lab</a></td> </table></center> </div> </td></tr></table></center></div></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
Huh, ok, you last post fool me then, sounded pretty convining.<br><br>*scratchs head*<br><br>Oh well. No need to worry about projectiles now, I guess.<br><br>Though there is a way to find personal happyness with selflessness that would allow you to drop every thing you had without a fundamental flaw. I'm not going to be the one to tell you though, in all likely hood, you have heard it from someone before any ways.<br><br>Hearing is knowing something is about X is there<br>Seeing is beleiving something about X is exist<br>But doing is understandinbg what the Variable X is<br><br>Sence you have more then likely have hear something, restating would be redundant.<br><br>Oh and by the way, when addressing seeing, think of magnits and the fact that you can't see the magnetic flux lines but you can see the direct result a magnet has on polerisable mattirale.<br><br>And if your already passed seeing is beliving, and are at the doing is understanding. Quetion every variable, littirally, even if it hurts. One of the sayings athlets like to use is "No pain no game", and this is defentalty not limited to just sports and athletic carreers, or even physical pain.<br><br>Oh and by the way, the best athlites that can take a lot of bashing are usually the ones that can overcome emotional distress. And I mean the best athilets by true skill and will not the desensitized druggies who pump up on controled substances. <p></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | Zhuge Liang [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
I guess I should be more concrete, and perhaps more simple in my questioning.<br><br>The person in the situation is BOTH wealthy and happy; materially wealthy and spiritually content with their life. However, in order to make the WORLD BETTER, to make it better for others (eg. to gain something like world peace or to eliminate hunger), they have to give up everything they have (material wealth, family etc...to forsake their entire world, perhaps their entire existance in order to bring about a significantly better world for everyone else...to sacrifice their life as they have known it to obtain the objective) would they (or rather you) be willing to do this?<br><br>Now, if this is the case, almost like a Biblical Job I suppose (though this is not a test of faith), would you be willing to give up everything even if there is no promise of reward at the end, and no clear hope of ever regaining what you have lost, despite the fact that through your sacrifice you will improve humanity as a whole? That's the question. <br><br> <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/R3K.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/ZLstrat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE BR START--><br /><!--EZCODE BR END--><br>Empires wax and wane; states cleave asunder and coalesce. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Swift as the wind, silent as the forest, fierce as the fire, steady as the mountain."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> A banner used by the Takeda clan of Kai (Sengoku Jidai era). </p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub19.ezboard.com/btenchimuyo79943.showUserPublicProfile?gid=zhugeliang@tenchimuyo79943>Zhuge Liang</A> <IMG SRC="http://www.ezboard.com/ezgfx/gicons/black_greenspot.gif" BORDER=0> at: 1/25/04 4:47 am<br></i> |
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| Author: | JadenStriker2ndGen [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
"would you be willing to give up everything even if there is no promise of reward at the end"<br><br>To do it with no conditions, that would be a pretty painful challenge to under go. If there wasn't some sort of bases for it like faith or a matiral reward, the task would more then likely seem to big and too painful. Most people work on Personal Happiness only logic, so you just got 3/4 of the world going to say "Hell No".<br><br>Honistly I wouldn't say yes if I didn't have faith as a bases of security and sertonty. <p></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | Xx Goddess Ryoko xX [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
It'd be hard, but I think I'd probably give up everything I have in order to make the world a better place to live in. If I had experienced *happiness* and everything was going right for me, then I wouldn't mind giving it up. After all, others should be able to experience what I did, and I think it'd be best to die at my high peak rather than at my lowest. <p><center><table border=3 bordercolor=lightgrey rules=none><tr><td><center><a href="http://pub39.ezboard.com/bdabestmessageboard" border="0" target="new"><img src="http://www.dimensionalstars.com/utenachristmas.jpg" border="0"></a></table></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | Zhuge Liang [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
I would like to believe that I would do what GR would. But when it comes to the test, I honestly don't know what I'd do. I think it would be a very very hard choice indeed.<br><br>Still, to sacrifice nobly in order to make this a better place for all...if you lose everything you have but the cause is truly worthwhile then that would not be so bad I think.<br><br>ZL <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/R3K.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/ZLstrat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE BR START--><br /><!--EZCODE BR END--><br>Empires wax and wane; states cleave asunder and coalesce. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Swift as the wind, silent as the forest, fierce as the fire, steady as the mountain."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> A banner used by the Takeda clan of Kai (Sengoku Jidai era). </p><i></i> |
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| Author: | Fwingbon Ali [ Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
But if your decision made some pretty negative effects upon those you cared about?<br><br>In my case, I would sacrifice all of my wealth and if needed, health to help make the world much better then it already is.<br><br>But if my sacrifice included my family, friends, home (not the house, the land), and my country, then my answer would have to be seriously reconsidered. Because for most people of good heart and mind, self sacrifice is a lot easier then sacrificing others you care about for a cause.<br><br>Sorry ZL, but your question is still a bit too broad to be properly answered unless divided into sectors. <p></p><i></i> |
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| Author: | Zhuge Liang [ Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetical Question...Personal Happiness vs. Selflessn |
<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>I don't really mind that the answers are coming out as diverse as they are. The topic is generating thought and discussion, and that's the main thing. ^_^ I've never minded making any topic that took on a life of its own, and it's kind of fun to see them go off on tangents (within reason of course, since the central question remains the theme of this thread).<br><br>Still, you're right. My question doesn't take into account a lot of potential variables, and thus it is still broad, but that's fine. I did want to narrow it down a bit from the early responses, so that a choices would be clearer, and I did say personal happiness in the question, though that does indeed not take into account those around the person. Still, your answer is a legitimate one and presents another angle for consideration. <br><br>ZL <br><br> <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/R3K.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/korichan/zl/ZLstrat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <!--EZCODE BR START--><br /><!--EZCODE BR END--><br>Empires wax and wane; states cleave asunder and coalesce. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Swift as the wind, silent as the forest, fierce as the fire, steady as the mountain."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> A banner used by the Takeda clan of Kai (Sengoku Jidai era). </p><i></i> |
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